Frustrating
POSTED: May 16, 2008
I was reading an article on the front page about the concern of Mr. Charles Peterson that the state law limits how much the school district can raise taxes. He states that the demands of unfunded mandates are causing a hardship for the school system.
I urge people to visit StopTeacherStrikes.org to see how much money is paid out to school teachers, principals, etc. Yes, they have degrees and should get fair compensation. However, to be constantly told how our teachers are not being paid enough when many people in this area are truly struggling and don't have the advantage of the benefits teacher and school officials have is a little frustrating.
Every time we look like we, the property owners, might be getting a little bit of a break, the district raises taxes again. I would like the private sector to have someone make up the difference in their pension plans – if they have one – when their investment goes bad as happened a few years ago.
I had 4 children attend school in Williamsport. I was surprised at the spelling in some of the notes that came home from some of their teachers. Yes, they have had some excellent teachers that were worth their weight in gold, but I don't believe they should all get top salaries just because they have a degree.
I also don't see why the homeowner has to foot the bill for everyone. We don't have a safety net under us.
Rachel Hicks
Williamsport
Submitted by Virtual Newsroom
Member Comments
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JohnHilfirty
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05-19-08 12:00 PM
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Chuck Reeder: "So are you in favor of cutting the expensive teacher salaries and benefits because that is what most think is where the great cash outlay is in schools." I initiated the taxpayer's attack on the WASD in 1988 over their tax and spend methods. We took over the school board and made some changes. As part of that effort, I served on a "Blue Ribbon" committee assembled by then President Judge Thomas C. Raup. to find ways to implement the suggestions of the Pennsylvania Economy League. The very first principal I learned was "look first at the largest outlay in the budget." Payroll and benefits accounted for about 80% of the total expenditures !!! Personnel IS - WITHOUT ANY DOUBT - where the greatest cash outlay is in operating schools.
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CMReeder
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05-18-08 11:43 AM
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Correction nobud it wasn't just the wealthy they cut taxes for. Kennedy's tax cuts help improve the purchasing and saving power of the lower and middle class wage earners. Reagan did give as much in tax cuts as he did in eliminating social programs from government coffers and diverted it towards military spending. If I remember correctly taxes went up in his second term. Tax cuts are a short term fix and are never permanent. As far as luxury tax goes, the rich have paid them before and when it was rescinded sales did not immediately rise. It was when the newly rich during the dot**** days started in purchasing those high price items did sales increase.
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nobud74
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05-17-08 11:14 PM
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Luxury taxes don't work. They have been tried. Any time you try to penalize someone who works hard to get "stuff" you will not be able to tax them. They have the means to avoid the tax. When you target a group--the wealthy--do you really think they will let you pick their pockets? John Kennedy and Ronald Reagan understood this and both helped the country grow by cutting the tax on the wealthy. When you tax someone too high they find ways to avoid the tax.
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lowkey
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05-17-08 10:22 PM
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You are correct nobud, I am not refering to a flat tax here though I support a flat tax. I did not mean a consumption tax though, I meant a luxury tax. I think that a flat tax should take the place of our current income tax system. A fixed rate flat tax would ensure everyone except those below the poverty line paid the same share of taxes on income. I think a luxury tax might help people who use credit to buy things they cannot afford curb their spending habits as well.
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nobud74
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05-17-08 9:05 PM
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lowkey, I believe you are referring to a consumption tax, not a flat tax. A consumption tax would be applied to that new sports car you bought and to that nifty set of custom made golf clubs you needed. A flat tax would be applied to all that money you made in the past few years so that you could buy that hot sports car and golf clubs.
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senagod
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05-17-08 8:13 PM
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CM, not sure if you were responding to my post or not. You're right, a lot of things can eat up a budget other than salaries and benefits. My experience is probably different because Philly has been under the gun to cut costs for years now. I provided realtime notetaking services for a student with some hearing loss. The district subcontracted the work and I got paid $18 an hour with no benefits. Once I graduate court reporting school, I could take that same skill and make close to $75 an hour. As far as teacher salaries and benefits go, I only have a problem when they refuse to pay for any part of their health care benefits. I look at it like this: If I have to pay taxes to benefit somebody else, I'd rather spend it on the young so that hopefully they can support themselves and not end up on welfare with my tax dollars. I have no children, but education is important to me so that I don't have to be taxed more down the line.
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lowkey
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05-17-08 1:16 PM
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Its funny how people complain about taxes to pay for teachers but it seems like they are ok with subsidizing the movie theater where it $8 for a ticket to a place that your tax dollars supported. We also have tax payer dollars for Bowman field because as long as the baseball team can have the TV equipment they need, all is right with the world. As far as taxes go I think there should be a flat tax. If you can afford to buy all the expensive cars, electronics etc. then you can afford the tax.
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nobud74
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05-17-08 12:39 PM
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CM, agreeing with you two days in a row--oh no! Just kidding. You are 100% correct on this, though. Have a good weekend!
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CMReeder
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05-17-08 11:13 AM
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You want to give a gift to your child's teacher at the end of the year give them construction paper, markers, pencils, pens, paper or a gift card from an outlet like Staples.
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CMReeder
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05-17-08 11:09 AM
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So are you in favor of cutting the expensive teacher salaries and benefits because that is what most think is where the great cash outlay is in schools. My family is very involved in my young newphews education. The comment my sister gets is that their teachers wished more parents were as diligent as my sister and her husband. We also see the lack of tools to teach with, the xeroxed books and work sheets, out dated computers. People still demand more from institutes of learning they just don't want to pay for it or to put any time into it. There are a lot of factors that can use up a school budget and teacher's salaries is not the only one. Maintenace of an aging structure, equipment, liability insurance, benefit packages, security, lawsuits, transportation, special needs programs, supplies, testing requirements. Most schools run on a shoe string budget with teachers buying much needed supplies out of pocket.
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senagod
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05-17-08 10:30 AM
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I'm with Gavin here. You don't need tons of money to produce a great school. I used to work at Masterman High School in downtown Philly. The building is old, the classrooms are cramped, and there's not much in the way of frills. Yet Masterman is the number one public school in the state. Part of it is because it's a magnet school, but a big part of it is the parents are involved. They raise money to put smartboards and wall AC units in the classrooms, and they even come in and clean the school on the weekends. They're invested in their children's education, and all of those kids go to college. A good deal of them get into Ivy League schools. It all comes down to parents that care about education. If you don't have a parent that stresses the importance of learning, you can be in a school with all the "perks" and still fail.
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CMReeder
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05-17-08 10:21 AM
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Like what you had to say Spigotz. However," I do know, 40 years ago, my friends and I walked to school, everyday, in the snow, barefoot, up hill, with the wind in are faces." Exercising poetic license aren't we? You forgot it was a one room school house, bring your own lunch if there was one to bring. Books that came from the Revolutionary war period. Teachers that were old and haggard and pinched face and meaner than a stripe snake. Shades of the stories of our parents and grandparents.
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Spigotz
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05-17-08 8:29 AM
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One more thing, Spike, reduce a teacher's pay and you won't see the little perks they provide their students. Teachers spend, on average, about $300 to $350 a year on treats or rewards for their students -- i.e.: tax exemption is $250. That does not include the supplies teachers purchase because districts put a cap on how much each teacher can purchase for his/her classroom. And, do you know those summer classes or night classes teachers take to meet the 180-hour professional growth requirements? Well, the teacher pays out of pocket for the gas, vehicle and supplies to attend those classes and conferences. And that so-called free insurance - don't you believe it. Teachers pay into that benefit. Oh, and those fundraisers your kids are always involved in? Ahem, they hit-up their teachers first. I know teachers that purchase Girl Scout cookies from upwards of a dozen different students, just to help them. It ain't a job, it's a passion. Some are better at it than others.
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Spigotz
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05-17-08 8:18 AM
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On average, how fast does today's kid run a quarter-mile? About 8 mph, give or take. Yeah, I have evidence. 10 years ago, the average was 10, close to 11 mph. I have no data beyond that. I do know, 40 years ago, my friends and I walked to school, everyday, in the snow, barefoot, up hill, with the wind in our faces.
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Spigotz
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05-17-08 8:15 AM
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Meme2: Your 6:18 a.m. post was very insightful. Thank you for putting it in a brief, yet, frank, ideology. Spike: Your argument holds very little validity. In the old west, a town hired a gunfighter and paid whatever money the fighter wanted, in order to get a particular job done. The fighter made no promises, but, offered his gun and talent for fair compensation. As far as gym class? Hmmmm. This is the electronics generation. The only outside they see is going to and from school. Gym class should be daily and at least an hour long. Compare the stamina of today's high school football teams to those teams 30 years ago. If all the teams are fat and lazy, it will appear as one team is phenomenal. If all teams are fit and trim, the most exciting games occur and the stands are filled to capacity. Are high school football stadiums filled to capacity, every game? On average, how fast does today's kid run a quarter-mile? About 8 mph, give or take. Yeah, I have evidence.
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spike1
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05-17-08 6:59 AM
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TTT - weren't you in a union? I know you have kids. I really think we should also have a tax reduction if we had children and did not send them to Public School. Kids need to be educated to the level of their ability. Why am I paying for kids who are suspended or are at Alternative Ed. because of their own behavior or parental lack of interest? All kids need the basics. Do we really need gym class. Don't kids go out and rip and run and jump as part of being youthful? One or two days a week of learning how to jump over stationary equipment or stand on one foot on a balance beam will not overcome the potato chips and burgers some kids indulge in with regularity. We don't need schools who are so far away and so large that the heating, gas for buses, and in one year electric is prohibitively high in addition to compensating anyone who choses to teach. This is just another area that the salary has exceeded the capacity to pay. Teachers should receive evaluation or merit increases only.
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memememe2
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05-17-08 6:18 AM
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In the very beginning, the federal government declared education of children to be in the interests of the general public, mandated it, and delegated responsibility to the states. Over the years, PA has had homeowners (those most likely to have children) pay the bulk of the bill (except in Philadelphia, where there is an income tax that covers it). Teachers are not babysitters; they are professionals, with advanced degrees and many years of training. What the writer is upset about is the fact that, in PA, teachers are also organized and act in their collective interests to gain more pay and benefits. Meanwhile, labor union membership statewide has declined. Perhaps there is a lesson here, not just for the working man and woman, but also for those who oppose imposition of taxes other than property taxes for public school funding?
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Spigotz
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05-17-08 4:04 AM
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The funny point is, TTT, brought up an interesting twist. Why should he have to pay for someone else's kids? Hmmm. If I never use Reach Road, why should I pay to have it repaved? For that matter, If I never need a cop, why pay? Never need firemen, hospital, parks, social security, etc...
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CMReeder
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05-17-08 12:41 AM
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Gavin and lowkey interesting discourse sorry I wasn't here. tellthetruth, so glad I wasn't here.
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Anna77
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05-16-08 10:23 PM
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Spigotz: did TTT find a liberal in your potato chips?
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Spigotz
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05-16-08 10:05 PM
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TTT is another product of our failing public school system. I wonder, TTT, do you pay taxes?
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nobud74
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05-16-08 9:19 PM
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ttt, who tinkled on your Wheaties? A bit vitriolic, I would say.
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tellthetruth
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05-16-08 9:03 PM
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lowkey, your work for the biggest profit industry there is. When they need more they just steal it from the tax payers.
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tellthetruth
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05-16-08 9:01 PM
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Lowkey, they drive you to the hospital then take all your money, deed and what ever else you own, and if they don't the doctor or hospital will.
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tellthetruth
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05-16-08 8:59 PM
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Lowkey, You have the choice as to how much gas you want to use (buy). We don't have a choice on how much tax we want to spend for teachers. It is not about the kids, it is about the teachers and the unions. Hey lowkey, you should have to go home without pay on rain days, what did you all do? sit and play cards in the shed on the tax payers dollar?
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